Posts by defender of truth

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

defender of truth

Thanks for that Phizzy.
It just begs the question, how someone can believe in a God that cares and yet leaves his creatures in such a cold and pitiless universe, with no evidence of 'you are worth more than many sparrows'. In fact, as your quote highlights, there are probably sparrows getting their guts ripped out by a hawk somewhere, just while I type this post! And who 'designed' the hawk??

68

The problems Bible believers have with Atheists is the burden of proof is on the Believer and we just do not have enough proof.

by booker-t in

i recently posted a post telling this board my athesit coworker stumped me with questions about the validity of the ark story and i just cannot stop talking to her.

i love hearing her side and point of view which in the past i would have dismissed as "satanic" thinking.

she has some very good questions and i am having a hard time answering them.

defender of truth

"I am happy, unless something really tragic happens in my immediate world...I mean We live in a world but do we really care about those living and suffering today?"

Thanks for being open and honest about how you feel.
I wonder if it is this lack of sensitivity , or shutting ourselves off to the pain that others go through, that is a key factor for many in maintaining the belief in a Biblical God that also must, logically, not be strongly moved by the pain and death that he sees. Or else he would have to act, as nobody would stop him, he is not bound by any constraints.

Yet many others are torn apart inside when they see people on the news that have lost their homes or children in a disaster that a God could have prevented. Or they are moved to act when they hear reports of animal abuses.
The God of the Bible does not put the health and happiness of all living beings above anything else, that much is for certain. So believers in that God have to categorise at least some of the suffering they see as unimportant, or of less importance than God's will.
Belief in the Bible's stories as literal is insidiously desensitizing, in my view.

57

I am Back on JWN and out of hospital

by KateWild in

jw
friends

hey everyone,.

thanks qcf and nugget for starting threads.

thanks cofty for wondering where i was.

defender of truth

I'm glad to hear that you are okay Sam (are you allright with strangers calling you that, by the way?). Although I don't know you, anyone who can cope with the immense effort required to get through a meeting without running out, for the sake of family, is an inspiration and a hero to me.
I hope for your sake that the meetings do not contain any material/answers directed at you, although my experience of miserable interfering gossipers indicates they may do..
I can only think of two things to give you to try and help you.

1) When people make you angry and are judgemental and insensitive, try to remember:
Psalm 103:15-16
English Standard Version (ESV)
"15 As for man, his days are like grass;
he flourishes like a flower of the field;
16 for the wind passes over it, and it is gone,
and its place knows it no more."
I don't believe anymore, but I like that verse.
In other words, their judgements and their insensitive thoughts will one day be as nonexistent as them. And so will you, life is short.
Don't let the things that another blade of grass has to say ruin your day. Their views are not as important as they think.

2) If you get bored..

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/210567/1/Jehovahs-witness-meetings-are-NOT-BORING#.U7F2C12t-o8

68

The problems Bible believers have with Atheists is the burden of proof is on the Believer and we just do not have enough proof.

by booker-t in

i recently posted a post telling this board my athesit coworker stumped me with questions about the validity of the ark story and i just cannot stop talking to her.

i love hearing her side and point of view which in the past i would have dismissed as "satanic" thinking.

she has some very good questions and i am having a hard time answering them.

defender of truth

Booker-t: If you get chance to, and seeing as the Flood is a topic of interest to you, please feel free to have a look at this thread sometime..

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/222593/1/Did-the-Global-Flood-of-the-Bible-really-happen-Please-give-evidence#.U7Fz9F2t-o8

68

The problems Bible believers have with Atheists is the burden of proof is on the Believer and we just do not have enough proof.

by booker-t in

i recently posted a post telling this board my athesit coworker stumped me with questions about the validity of the ark story and i just cannot stop talking to her.

i love hearing her side and point of view which in the past i would have dismissed as "satanic" thinking.

she has some very good questions and i am having a hard time answering them.

defender of truth

Bugbear said:
"How could god kill all humans in a flood except for 8 other people, when he/she was actually the father of them all?
"

Good point, and I hope that nobody forgets the countless animals that were needlessly murdered in the Flood.

http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/how-many-animals-has-god-killed.html

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

defender of truth

Here is the original question, which no theist has satisfactorily been able to answer yet:
-----
"Theists, why does God allow suffering..
..specifically, the suffering of animals. You can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to God etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. But how can you love a God that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with God, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways?"

754

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

by The Quiet One in

..specifically, the suffering of animals.

you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.

i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.

defender of truth

"try to stop hating, you are wasting your time with god u believe does not even exist."

I don't hate him. Neither do I hate Santa Claus. I am trying to help people who spend their lives worshipping this God to see who it is they worship, this is what freed me mentally from being a JW.

68

The problems Bible believers have with Atheists is the burden of proof is on the Believer and we just do not have enough proof.

by booker-t in

i recently posted a post telling this board my athesit coworker stumped me with questions about the validity of the ark story and i just cannot stop talking to her.

i love hearing her side and point of view which in the past i would have dismissed as "satanic" thinking.

she has some very good questions and i am having a hard time answering them.

defender of truth

Race andros said:"is not atheism also a belief system."

This may enlighten you, andros..
"Atheism is usually defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.

Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God." Some dictionaries even go so far as to define Atheism as "wickedness," "sinfulness," and other derogatory adjectives. Clearly, theistic influence taints dictionaries. People cannot trust these dictionaries to define atheism. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."

Why should atheists allow theists to define who atheists are? Do other minorities allow the majority to define their character, views, and opinions? No, they do not. So why does everyone expect atheists to lie down and accept the definition placed upon them by the world’s theists? Atheists will define themselves.

Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion.While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion then health is a disease.
A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, "If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position."
The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings."

http://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism

68

The problems Bible believers have with Atheists is the burden of proof is on the Believer and we just do not have enough proof.

by booker-t in

i recently posted a post telling this board my athesit coworker stumped me with questions about the validity of the ark story and i just cannot stop talking to her.

i love hearing her side and point of view which in the past i would have dismissed as "satanic" thinking.

she has some very good questions and i am having a hard time answering them.

defender of truth

Race andros said:"why are you compelled to force your shit now like you did then. only those who recieve everlasting life will know any difference."
..This is a topic about atheists and believers. Nobody is forcing you to read it, and my post was not off-topic, so far as I am aware. I was merely responding to this provocative statement on page 1.

ablebodiedmanposted~ 9 hours ago(6/29/2014)
' I do not know how men come to the idea there is no "evidence" of intelligent design and purpose in this universe. '
Me neither.
The amount of evidence is overwhelming!
It can only be denied through ignorance or ridicule. "

.. You can only deny intelligient design through ignorance. Sounded like a challenge to me, and an insult to all atheists. Also, any lurkers may be helped to think by the information I researched and provided. But thank you for telling me to 'stfu', it was very helpful and productive.

95

The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals

by cofty in

my thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.

this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.

it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.

defender of truth

I didn't call you a troll?... I was trying to defend you. Whatever, I'm done.